Digby analyzes Kevin Drum’s challenge to robust liberal hawks, Put Up Or Shut Up
Kevin Drum challenges “failure is not an option” Democrats to put up or shut up:
…if you do believe we can win in Iraq, let’s hear what you mean by “win” and how you think we can do it, and let’s hear it in clear and compelling declarative sentences. “Stay the course” isn’t enough. What Bush is doing now obviously isn’t working, so what would you do that’s significantly different?
Conversely, if you don’t believe we can win in Iraq, and you’re only suggesting we stay there because you can’t stand the thought of “looking weak,” then your moral compass needs some serious adjustment.”
How can we win a war where we are the problem?
I can’t imagine any realistic “winning” scenario at this point in which Americans are involved. Indeed, it was lost from the the minute we defied the world and decided to go it alone. It’s the “american-ness” of the occupation that is its most immediate problem. So we should go, if only to relieve that pressure.
There is a very slight chance that if we leave the Iraqis themselves will create a stable, democratic system but I’m extremely pessimistic. The country was an artificial construct to be begin with and the fact that the majority were repressed by the minority for decades, and that vast amounts of money is at stake in certain areas and there is a rise of extreme religious fundamentalism in the region means that this is almost certainly destined for disaster. It was foreseen by many that we could actually make things worse for the Iraqi people and we have.
Cogitator is more blunt. It’s time to pull out, because the war is already over and we lost:
The war IS over. The war, as it exists today, CANNOT be won.
We invaded Iraq because the Bush administration argued that Saddam Hussein possessed biological and chemical weapons. We were told that Saddam Hussein had a nuclear bomb and that we could not wait for the smoking gun to come in the form of a mushroom cloud. We were told that Saddam Hussein wished to annihilate the entire United States. Remember the endless threats which all turned out to be lies? Don’t forget the lies that led us to where we are now. WATCH THIS AND REMEMBER.
Bilmon examines a Wa Po article that informs us things are much worse in both Afghanistan and Iraq than anybody has admitted, Of Kurds And Crips:
Tony Shadid and his colleague Steve Fainaru — last seen at this blog cruising the Sunni Triangle with a bunch of Saddam-loving Iraqi Army recruits — have a long story in today’s Washington Post that reviews the transformation of Iraq into the new, juiced-up Lebanon:
Shiite and Kurdish militias, often operating as part of Iraqi government security forces, have carried out a wave of abductions, assassinations and other acts of intimidation, consolidating their control over territory across northern and southern Iraq and deepening the country’s divide along ethnic and sectarian lines . . .
In Basra in the south, dominated by the Shiites, and Mosul in the north, ruled by the Kurds, as well as cities and villages around them, many residents say they are powerless before the growing sway of the militias, which instill a climate of fear that many see as redolent of the era of former president Saddam Hussein.
Iraq’s second-largest city, has witnessed dozens of assassinations, claiming members of the former ruling Baath Party, Sunni political leaders and officials of competing Shiite parties. Many have been carried out by uniformed men in police vehicles, according to political leaders and families of the victims, with some of the bullet-riddled bodies dumped at night in a trash-strewn parcel known as The Lot.
The picture they paint is chaotic, thuggish and utterly detached from the political bickering now under way in the Green Zone — which might just as well be happening on another planet. The militias have already adopted their own constitution, which is loosely modeled on the one developed for the streets of South Central Los Angeles by the Crips and the Bloods:
It’s over. The only question is how many more American soldiers and innocent Iraqis will be killed before the Democratic warmongers wake up and smell the napalm. Contribute to Russ Feingold.