On Third Parties

I left a comment to a Thomas’ post about the Greens, and decided it is worth promoting to the front page. I believe in the “open-source think tank” concept of blogs — a place where ideas can be introduced, discussed and refined. Here is my take on the Greens.
Anything that divides the opposition is good news for the Republicans.


If you care about what is happening to the people in Iraq, or the environment, or so many things we all care about you would understand the need to band together to fight against the Right.
This is a crucial period, with the Right consolidating power. Every single one of us must stand TOGETHER to fight them. They mean to foment war across the Middle East. They mean to end our democracy and begin an era of corporate control over our lives. And they clearly mean to do this under the auspices of a theocracy.
If you care about what is happening you will recognize the need to hold together and present a unified front. The labor movement learned this the hard way – union and solidarity are not just words, they have meaning. They LEARNED that standing together is the only power we have against the moneyed interests.
In the 2000 election, the stakes were just as high, but many people either did not realize it or did not care, and voted for Nader. Since then we have seen hundreds of thousands killed in Iraq, the looting of our natural and financial resources, and the beginnings of domestic repression. There is no “ignorance” excuse this time.

m4s0n501

17 thoughts on “On Third Parties

  1. So when, Dave, are you going stop your counterproductive behavior and join the real opposition party?
    Your argument is a good one, but if the “united opposition” you are shilling for is a corrupt, cowardly and ineffective party that has lived far too long, well, it’s bullshit.
    And since you’re shilling for the democrat party, enough said.

  2. Much as I love the Greens, I’m afraid you’re exactly right at this point in time. Much as I dislike the Democratic party, I don’t think we have much choice but to vote Democratic if we want to end the crisis we’re in right now.
    Get some power back first, THEN tackle the problem of reforming the Democratic party by forcing it to take the policy of the Greens seriously. That’s what third parties can accomplish, in normal times, when they’re strong enough.

  3. “Democrat party” isn’t a talking point — it’s an insult. This is a political party that cannot even control its own name! I use it at all times because I can’t pass up an opportunity to show what incompetent bozos they are.
    To put it as simply as I can, the democrats, like Dave, have no real arguments to vote for them. They are left with “we’re not them”. Well, first of all, they ARE them in any number of ways. (The democrat party is to the right of the majority of the American people, on the war issue and on many others.) Guys like Dave will also say that there is no alternative but to vote for democrats while “changing the party from within”. Heh! Does anyone actually believe that foolishness?
    There is an alternative — vote only for candidates who share your views. To do otherwise is to be duped, to be a fooled again and again.

  4. Richard and paperwight,
    I apologize for being so totally uninformed, but I was unaware that the term “Democrat Party” was not used by Democrats. Fascinating. What term do Democrats prefer to describe the party? Also, is there a good story behind this?
    Thanks,
    Happy

  5. Solidarity for whom?
    Support the D’s and you support quisling’s like Cantwell, Lieberman, Case, Smith of Wa, Nelson of Nebraska and all so many others who, if they had any honesty or ethics, would be running in the republican primary’s.
    When the D’s actually start behaving as though they care about the country more then campaign contributions I will start caring about the D’s.
    Remember the lesser of two evils is still evil.

  6. rational -you don’t like Lieberman therefore all Democrats are bad?
    richard – A few Democrats voted with a lot of Republicans, therefore all Democrats are bad?
    I wonder what you guys think would happen if Greens were in the majority? As if it would somehow be different? Do the Greens have an organizational support infrastructure capable of fighting against the resources of the Right? If not what are THEY trying to do about it? I can describe in detail what the Dems are doing.

  7. I didn’t say all D’s were bad but the apparachek of the D’s is rotten.
    From Lieberman getting support from all of the Conn. elected and dissing his oppenent to cutting the legs out from under Obama on campaign reform and any “honest’ democrat in Conn. who wants to talk about the fiasco this war has been.
    How about Nelson voting with bush on a greater frequency then Snow or shay’s.
    Or Cantwell rolling on procedural votes to promote the R’s agenda and then pretending it matters when she votes against them where the fix is already in.
    No not all D’s are bad just the ones who control the party, the money and the message.

  8. “Democrat party” isn’t a talking point — it’s an insult. This is a political party that cannot even control its own name! I use it at all times because I can’t pass up an opportunity to show what incompetent bozos they are.
    This is one of the stupidest things I have read in a very long time. If I begin referring to richard as “asshat richard” and everyone who wants to insult richard begins referring to him as “asshat richard”, has he lost control of his name? Names are what people say they are. The Republicans have been working very very hard for a long time to use the locution “Democrat Party” in lockstep along with the rest of their talking points. Richard apparently just plays along with that particular infantile smear because he has his own axe to grind.
    But at least Richard pretends to know better. HappyOD, on the other hand, doesn’t know the actual name of the party he spends his time here smearing. That pretty much tells us everything we need to know both about his actual motives for commenting here and about his level of engagement with anything that’s not a Republican Talking Point.

  9. Geez paper,
    I only asked an honest question. If you’ll check back to my posts, you’ll see that I have always referred to your party as the Democratic Party. I was totally unaware of the misname issue. I did use the misname today as a jibe.
    Ascribing nefarious motives to anyone who asks you an honest question will soon result in no one asking you questions. Please believe me, I’m happy to describe my motives to you directly, just ask.
    As for not being aware of anything other than Republican talking points, I read Dave’s links. Page after page after page of Dave’s links. I comment on the links in detail. Please see todays link from Dave with the 22 page memo and accompanying article as an example. As a matter of fact, since I began posting here, I am reading Democratic/Liberal articles at about 5:1 over Conservative stuff. It’s starting to have an affect. Just earlier today I had a small temptation to support raising YOUR taxes. Don’t worry, I came to my senses.

  10. I can describe in detail what the Dems are doing.
    And look at how well things are turning out! Jeesh. The democrat party is corrupt, cowardly and utterly, utterly ineffective.
    Yes, paperguy, if you can get a large segment of the people I deal with every day to refer to me as “asshat richard” (which shouldn’t be too hard!) then you have proved that I am utterly lame — as lame as the democrat party, maybe. Maybe. So, let me know whe you’re gonna start and I’ll start scoring….
    Politics is largely about persuasion. The repugs have persuaded a lot of people to refer to the democrats by a name the latter don’t like. And they of course can’t do anything about it. Because they can’t do anything about ANYTHING.

  11. I will not vote for a bad candidate just because there is a worse candidate. I will, whenever I’m given the chance, vote for a good candidate. When I’m not given the chance, I won’t vote.
    Let’s get Kantian about this. If everyone did as you suggest — vote for anything with a democrat label on it — then we’d end up with a government in the pocket of corporations, with no health care, with globalization still on the rampage. If everyone did as I suggest — vote only for candidates who oppose corporate hegemony, demand universal health care, implement fair trade — then we’d be on a road to some progress.
    The problem is that you keep saying that progress is impossible and lesser-of-evils is the best that can ever be achieved.

  12. First, there are no votes to split because you do not own our votes. We own our votes. Because we are against the Republicans does not make us for Republican-lites. You want our votes? Fucking well EARN them.
    Second, yes yes, I know you can’t take responsibility for running crappy candidates because democrats don’t take responsibility for anything. It’s much easier to blame the weather or the stars or Ralph Nader when when your corporate sockpuppets lose.

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